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  MSNBC    All In With Chris Hayes  

    February 27, 2014
    12:00 - 1:01am PST  

next time you hear about entitlement reform, remember, this president stuck his neck out, only to have the republicans go shopping for a guillotine. and that's "hardball." all in with chris hayes starts now. good evening from new york. brakes news out of arizona. just moments ago where governor january br jan brewer has vetoed the most controversial bill in the country, it would allow businesses to discriminate against gays and the governor vetoed the bill saying it was overly broad. congresswoman, your reaction to the governor's decision? >> i have to say i'm really
pleased and happy. the governor has done absolutely the right thing for our state, and sent a message to the country about our values. arizona is a state that welcomes diversity, that we appreciate diverse ideas, opinions and people in our state. i think her actions today really solidified the values of arizona voters. >> are you surprised by the level of attention that it's got, and the way that it went from basically no one paying attention to this legislation nationally, at least working its way through both houses, to it becoming a central national issue? >> i think many people were surprised not just around the country, when the bill moved so quickly through the state senate and almost immediately after through the state house. that was a shock to even those of us who live in arizona. the bill was really ram rodded through quickly. i'm grateful that it received a lot of national attention, because it shows that as americans we can all agree that discrimination is wrong.
we can have policies that support people of different faiths and communities to come together and live their lives and have a shot at the american dream. >> i had a guest on the program two nights ago. he had written to the governor after voting for the bill to say you should veto it, saying this is going to be a black eye for our state. you served in the state legislature in arizona. >> right. >> you got a lot of attention for how effective you were, it was part of what you ran on when you ran for congress. as an outsider looking in, watching this all being developed. do you folks got it together over there in the state house? like what exactly kind of operation are you running when the people that vote for the bill turn around and write a bill a few days later saying, please veto the bill we voted for. >> i want to congratulate you -- >> you served in that legislature, you served
effectively. i'm asking you as an expert, now a congressman, but an expert on how that state house operates. is this typical of the way the arizona state house operates? >> unfortunately, for a number of years, the state house and senate have been polarized, we've seen that not just with this legislation, but with other bills in the past. i think that this opportunity provides a real chance for members of both political parties to begin talking even more with each other in the state house and state senate, to try to find more mod rad ideas to focus our energies on. one of the key things i think senators and representatives can come together to do, is to rehabilitate our image and send a message to businesses that arizona is open for business to everyone. we want the super bowl, we want conventions and we want people to recognize how great our state is. there is an opportunity for
bipartisan amendment making here. >> i think tonight is the first step in that happening. >> thank you. >> jan brewer has tweeted a picture of her veto. that is the way we ring in the veto these days. the pressure on jan brewer to veto 1062 was intense. democrat came from the conservative establishment who were rushing to condemn the bill. even fox news. >> i look at this bill and i wonder whether this is a reaction, an over reaction. in the end they may have struck back in a way that's deeply offensive to many, and potentially dangerous. >> basically it allows people to discriminate. >> i don't know why you would want to bring jim crow-log bag to the forefront for homosexuals. >> mitt romney has come out
against the bill. which means the 2008 presidential nominee came out against it. it's admirable. but here is what's strange about this whole episode, particularly on this night when jan brewer has vetoed it, we're seeing the republican establishment running away from a bill that would allow private citizens to discriminate against gay people and then defend that by evoking their religious faith. private photographers or bakers should be allowed to withhold their services from gay couples getting married. what conceivable logic is that legislation outrageous and acceptable and yet is totally fine for the state itself to discriminate against gay people by not recognizing their marriages in the first place. think about this. both senators are on the record
opposing marriage equality. >> i believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. i still hold to the traditional definition of marriage. >> i have changed my position on other issues in my life, but on this one i have not contemplated changing my position. >> mitt romney has also gone on the record against marriage equality. >> i believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman. other people have differing views and i respect that. these are personal matters. >> opposing marriage equality is essentially mandatory if you want to be the leader of the republican party today. i'm left with a cynical observation that republicans spoke out against 1062 because they see it as an opportunity to perform tolerance theater, distancing themselves from the base. and not accepting the logic that position would lead them to.
it's the logic that federal judges in six states now have accepted that there is no constitutional justification for states to discrimination against same sex couples who want to marry. these republicans have been caught in a bit of a tolerant theater trap of their own making. joining me now, the executive director of log cabin republicans. greg, do you think there's a mismatch between coming out against this legislation, and still adhering to the view that you don't support marriage equality? >> not at all, chris. i'm fond of saying that liberals are never happy even when they win. and tonight is a perfect example of that the fact that you have all of these republicans that have come out in support of a discriminatory bill. the fact that you had a republican governor come out and veto that bill is not enough. i have enough difficulty on the hill right now trying to make sure when we're advocating for
things like the unemployment discrimination act, to let republicans know you should not and do not con nature the two issues together. marriage equality has very little to do with whether or not the business with an obligation to provide public accommodations is allowed to discriminate against lgbt individuals. >> let me ask you this -- >> there's a double standard at least where the media is concerned. >> do you believe that the windsor holding of the supreme court was rightly decided? >> yes, we do. we've been fighting for years to overturn the entirety of the defense of marriage act. >> do you think decisions that have been made now by judges in six different states are unconstitutional? >> we support the constitutional right of committed same sex couples to engage in civil marriage partnerships. we oppose any sort of discrimination being codified into law, which is what sb-1062 would have done had governor brewer signed it into law, this
she did not tonight. >> why can't the republican party enmass -- if it's wrong for a private wedding photographer to be allowed to discriminate against a gay couple, clearly it should be wrong for an employer of a wedding photographer to fire that wedding photographer, because they are gay, right? that's the practice it would put an end to. >> correct. >> there seems to be no gap in the logic between those two. yet they're sitting there and waiting for the house republicans to take it up and pass it. >> it's sitting there having received bipartisan passage in the united states senate with 10 republicans voting for it, actually, both senators mccain and flake by the way. and it's not just sitting in the
house of representatives, it's moving through the house of representatives. we have had more republicans come on board as co sponsors of that bill. we continue to grow our coalitions. and more and more republicans continue to come out in support of it. i know that doesn't sit with the liberal media narrative, but to say it's end it's not. we should be celebrating right now. republicans made the difference so sb-1062 did not become law today. >> congratulations, it's wonderful. it's great. let's remember who passed this thing in the house and senate. it was the republican party, all right? yes, it's great that the republican governor went ahead and vetoed the bill passed by republican and conservative activists in the house and senate that would have been discriminatory that everybody didn't like. the fact of the matter remains, the question is, when will the republican party give up the ghost on objections to marriage equality when you are seeing both public opinion and the
courts moving so decisively against bans on marriage equality? >> well, let me give you some good news from tonight. that is, i think that we have really hit a watershed moment in this movement today, specifically with governor brewer's veto of this bill, and the fact that there's been a true emergence of common sense conservatism, that has trumped people on an ideological right that are hell bent on sticking to a perception as a way to win elections and grow the economy. governor brewer disagreed with both, so she vetoed the bill there. the fact that this bill moved through arizona quickly, and there was a pushback against that, shows me there was a necessity for log cabin republicans existence, we are not a part of this party, because of its stated positions on things like opposition of marriage equality. but in spite of that, we need to keep lobbying republicans to get on the right side of this. log cabin republican was founded because a former governor of california, ronald reagan came out against the briggs
initiative, which would have made it illegal for openly gay teachers in california to be teachers in public schools. you've seen a litany of republicans coming out again sb-1062. that gives me hope for the republican party. it's a turning point for the gop. >> that's a very good historical precedent in both ways. it was precisely the best work of a president. it did not indicate any greater enlightenment on lgbt issues from president reagan. he was right to oppose that bill in california. it was an ugly zrim in a dory bill. that did not mean president reagan was particularly enlightened on lgbt issues, i think we would agree. >> i disagree with you on that. this is a big question i've been asking, where did this bill come from? it sort of emerged out of the ether, why are more of them popping up across the country?
and up next, republicans have solutions when it comes to your health. >> we could repeal obama care and get this monkey off the backs of the american people. m. i'm a messy person. i don't like cleaning. i love my son, but he never cleans up. always leaves a trail of crumbs behind. you're going to have a problem with getting a wife. uh, yeah, i guess. [ laughs ] this is ridiculous. christopher glenn! [ doorbell rings ] what is that? swiffer sweep & trap. i think i can use this. it picks up everything. i like this. that's a lot of dirt. it's that easy! good job chris! i think a woman will probably come your way. [ both laugh ]
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we have a lot more coverage of breaking news out of arizona. we'll introduce you to the extremely organized foundation churning out legislation in arizona. plus, saturday night alum seth myers, fred armisen will be here live and on set. you don't want to miss that. stick around.
you talk to republicans about obama care, they will tell you there is nothing worse than the spektr of hardworking folks getting their insurance plans cancelled. >> it became clear to him the president was being misleading when he said if you like the plan you have you can keep it. >> people are finding out that they can no longer keep the health insurance they like. >> i have a letter from a woman named emily, she's losing her policy. she says -- >> and he received this cancellation letter because millions of americans are going to receive letters like this over the next couple weeks. >> the people who currently have insurance may lose their insurance. >> every canceledation from insurance companies or
businesses was put at the feet of the evil obama care machine. republicans they see a problem, they want to fix it, one of the problems republicans wanted to fix was the employer mandate, which requires employers with 50 or more workers to offer health insurance to full time employees. republican congressman todd young of indiana, eager to blunt the force of that all mighty mandate put forward a bill that would define full time as 40 hours a week instead of the current standard of 30. guess what? the congressional budget office, the one the gop sometimes loves, sometimes hates, this republican tweet to the ememployer mandate would kick 1 million people off their employer backed health coverage. more than 500,000 of them would end up getting coverage through medicaid, the children's health care program or the obama care exchanges. the rest would simply be uninsured. but it gets better, how much would this reduce the deficit? because we all know nothing animates the republican party
more than reducing the deficit. what's that you say? oh, it would increase the deficit by $74 billion over 10 years. impossible. of course, this bill is not going to become law. it is very instructive as a reminder that any actual commitment to legislating our complex business an teen health insurance regime will help create disruptions. the republican strategy to kill obama care has been to point to the disruptions it has created and it may create and say the end of the world is nye. if they ever got around to implementing their own plan, that would have its own disruptions. this friday, house majority leader eric cantor will meet with leaders to work on putting together what will be billed as the house republican alternative to obama care. here's my prediction. he could come out of that meeting with two dozen alternatives, but the republican party will actually get behind exactly none of them.
not in any real way. that would mean grappling with the reality of reforming health care, and not just throwing stones from the sidelines, that is why i have been saying and i will say again, the republican alternative to obama care is a unicorn. it's beautiful, it's mythical and it does not exist. joining me now, the president of the center for american progress. what do you think, are we going to see a real republican alternative to obama care? >> actually, the republican alternatives that have circulated in the past, so when senator mccain campaigned on, the ones created by think tanks notice last year or so, they have coverage lapses much 11 million, 15 million, 20 million people. so i think it's going to be challenging for them to run their ads around the country, through these nefarious groups, attacking obama care for coverage loss when they're
actual -- any alternatives are going to have much greater losses of coverage. we're talking about loss of coverage from employer based coverage. it's the coverage that big businesses offer. it's the best coverage, it's much better than the coverage in the individual market that they were clamoring about, which is actually the worst kind of coverage. >> that's why -- and that is why, hopefully that coverage in the individual market gets better, which is sort of the point. but the reason that i think it actually makes -- what i think it is funny, republicans seem torn between two polls, on the one hand they don't want to propose an alternative, because that exposes them to all the political risks you indicate, and the cbo scores it, the alternative will do all these terrible things and they have to defend it. they look ridiculous if all they do is talk about how horrible the affordable care act is, and they don't propose anything to replace it with. they want to occupy the space
between those two as long as they can, to get them toward election day. >> look, we're like five years, the republican alternative is just around the corner. so during the discussion of the affordable care act, there was always going to be an alternative, never really materialized. 2010 elections, it was going to be an alternative never really materialized. they don't want to have the responsibility of governing to fix the problem. there are things you could fix, they don't want to fix the problem, they want to have a campaign issue. and look, i think over the long term, the challenges on the affordable care act have turned a corner on the website, people are getting coverage. i hope there will be one day where we don't have to talk about an alternative because they'll accept this as the law of the land because it's helping people. people who never had health insurance are getting it today.
>> i go back and forth on when that date will be. it will happen eventually, but it will be interesting to see. >> as always, thank you. >> thank you. up next, the series that came to epitomize an entire city. >> how is your girlfriend doing? >> she won't tell me. portland other other, one of those cities that seems to take
portland other other, one of those cities that seems to take pride in its personal taste. it's one of those places that avoids charicatures because it's charicaturing itself. all this has made for tremendous material for "portlandia." they take you into a culture where people cite studies they heard on npr and relationships are not just about finances. >> okay, so claire, it looks like you have about $18,000 in savings plus your homeowner which is great. doug, you have about $10,000 in debt and it looks like $600 in unpaid parking tickets?
>> portland ya has become one of those that influences reality. see how the city itself is marketing itself to tourists. >> bikes, bangs, tattoos. the musical director for the new late night with seth myers it's awesome to have you here. >> what i love about portlandia. it has the comedic structure of a great onion piece. set up in the headlines and then hit hit hit hit hit throughout the article and it keeps being funny. how do you keep that going? >> that's kind of a trick in a way, we don't shoot that way, it's the editors who really take
everything we have. and make it funny. the way they judge it is, we're not in the editing room at all. they judge it on what they laugh at. >> are you improvising or scripted? >> it's both. we have a list of things that are supposed to happen, and then from there, we find out -- we want for it to sound natural when we speak. that's a very funny -- that's a good comparison in the onion, because i remember getting that feeling too, this is great. thank you, they didn't do too much. >> right, but also it was -- when those onion articles work, they manage to keep being funny in the vein of the joke you knew was coming. >> yes. >> what is the challenge in what's rewarding of the comedic premise of portland ya, we know what the jokes are going to be about and who they will be at the expense of. >> yes. and when you're done, you're done. you don't have to linger on it for too much.
you enjoy it, and then there's something -- there's another onion. >> do you worry that -- i feel like the character of the hipster, which is one of the central characters of portlandia. do you worry it becomes the comedic equivalent of airline food? it's a mockable figure? it becomes more and more difficult to come up with creative comedy? >> definitely. what we do is, we try to veer away from that. lately we've been trying to see more about getting to know some of the characters who are not help sisters at all. we're letting that grow. we do think about that, we want it to have a shelf life. we want it to expand beyond one scene. >> is carrie brown amazing? >> more, she amazes me all the time. she's so brilliant, so funny. >> she's so good in this. >> and she's a great writer. a lot of these sketches you're
writing, that's carrie. she's brilliant. i get to hang out with her all day. >> i was obsessed with them. >> totally obsessed. i. >> u.s. add to have, i listened to them nonstop, beginning to end. >> you are also a musician, and you have this fascinating electra jacketry, you were a musician before you became a comedian. and you're now back doing music on seth myers' show. how did that come about? >> lorne michaels asked me to do it, he said, you want to curate a band? >> what does that mean, curate a banned? >> put a band together, come up with the sound. and i was interested in it, because i like what talk show bands represent. the sort of mirror they are of music and what's popular and what's maybe going to be popular and just a sound.
it's defined, it's a framework to the show. and i just -- because i don't technically know music that well, i wanted to do it, like it's a good challenge. because i like something that i feel like maybe i'm kind of a fraud at, you know? >> you mentioned lorne michaels who is the producer of "the tonight show," late night with seth myers, snl and portlandia. it seems like the empire is growing always. >> he's not going for that, there's never a time when he was like, i'm going to do this show and that show, he's got this family of creative people and when he's a producer of something, it doesn't mean in name only. he really has opinions about the way things look and what they should be. and that's the value of it. >> you know, i have learned during this job, it's very difficult to do well and make successful, there are some
people that are very good at it. lorne michaels appears to be one of those people. >> he doesn't suffer inactual against. when anything becomes indulgent and preening, he can't stand it. he likes things broken down. >> the word we use is precious. we don't like precious, if it's precious, it's no good. >> the new season of portlandia starts tomorrow night on ifc. >> thank you. still ahead tonight. >> when you try to force me to bake a cake for your gay wedding and threaten me with prison if i don't, that's called fascism. >> we will take a look at the groups behind the religious liberty crusade across the country coming up.
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what's the first thing that comes to mind when i say jackson, mississippi. here's mine. ♪ we've been talkin' about jackson ever since the fire went out ♪
>> it was named after andrew jackson, in his role of the scurge of american indians, cleared the way for white settlers. jackson has hosted one of the most fascinating political experiments over the last eight months, since this man was elected mayor, an unabashed radical black nationalist, who once supported reparations for slavery. and an independently black government in the southeastern united states he defineded high profile clients, including tupac shakur. one of his most widely heralded victories was for the scott sisters. armed robbery they yielded $11 and sentenced to life in prison. the actual robbers testified as
part of a plea deal. in 2011 after 16er years in prison, he convinced the governor to suspend their sentences and release them. in january, he convinced the residents of jackson to vote in a 1% sales tax to support the crumbling infrastructure. and he was attempting to find middle ground. that lifelong project tragically came to an end when he passed away apparently from heart failure, in a country where politics are cramped by consensus he dedicated his life to those consensus often forgets. he will be missed. life's an adventure when you're with her.
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a petition the supreme court has been filed to appeal a decision by the new mexico supreme court finding it was illegal for a christian wedding photographer to deny services to a lesbian couple. it was that case, that spark for the so-called religious freedom bill. the organization that is defending that christian photographer in that case, the
alliance defending freedom is one of a small group of national conservative organizations that see these bills as the new frontier in their fight against gay rights. >> tennessee lawmakers are taking up sponsorship of a bill allowing businesses to reject business from gay couples. >> a bunch of lawmakers in a bunch of different states had the same idea at the same time. >> it's about whether or not people and businesses can refuse service to gay couples planning a wedding. >> a significant impact on policies affecting gay and transgender utahs. >> turn the gays away bill. >> the issue is a house bill that involves religious freedom legislation. >> bills that allow business owners to cite their religious beliefs in order to deny service to gay people have been proposed
or considered in at least 12 states. including the state of arizona. >> senate bill 1062 does not address a specific or present concern related to religious liberty in arizona. >> the arizona bill was written by the conservative advocacy group center for arizona freedom. >> it's protecting basic freedoms that belong to everyone, and i don't understand how you could argue anything else. this has nothing to do with discrimination. this is the website of the alliance defending freedom. where you can purchase the book called the homosexual agenda, which laments efforts to dilute values so homosexual behavior is thought to be normal. it is currently making the case in court that same sex marriage harms children.
the group has fought a variety of gay rights efforts at home and abroad, even defending a law in belize that makes homosexual acts punishable by ten years in prison. the other group behind the measure is part of a nationwide network of family policy networks that have pushed similar laws in kansas and idaho. they're organized under the advocacy arm of a christian group who co founded the alliance of defending freedom. and sees same sex marriage as the slipperiest of slopes. >> anything allegedly linked to civil rights will be doable. >> another big player in all this is a think tank called the ethics and public policy center, which has led to 18 religious freedom caucuses, under the umbrella of the american religious freedom program.
a group that crafts model legislation, hands it over to state lawmakers and testifies on its behalf. all of these organizations pass their efforts to codify legislation as a simple expression of religious freedom. a message that has been greatly amplified on fox news channel. >> why is it important for you to have a business and not have to abandon your personal religious beliefs to make a buck? >> in this free country we would think that there would be tolerance for your beliefs and people who disagree with you. >> do you feel as though you are forfeiting your own rights and being forced, in other words to participate in their wedding by making a cake for them? >> how far could this go? if your clients lose, if the supreme court doesn't take the case, and the lower court decision stands, then how far could this go? >> no one's asking anyone to abandon their beliefs, but in the world of fox news, apparently, that's the price of
equality. >> we reached out to the alliance, and the american religious freedom program to appear on the show tonight but they declined. joining me now is elliott shapiro, editor in chief of the cato supreme court review. i have no problem with the arizona law. what's your argument. >> next week i'm filing a brief supporting the challenges on appeal on utah and oklahoma. i filed briefs in their supreme court. i'm all for gay rights, the problem here is what your segment talked about, the new mexico photographer on whose behalf i have filed a brief, other businesses that are being sued for declining not to serve gay couples but to work gay marriages, there's a very important distinction there. >> let's be clear here, there's
no -- the stipulation of the legislation in the bill that the governor vetoed, doesn't say anything about gay marriages, it creates a broad defense for people who are sued to cite their religious conscience, and that could be a variety of things. we can imagine a case in which someone says, woman who has come into my shop i will not serve you because you're not covering your hair and it offends my sensibilities, and you could use your conscience in defense of a lawsuit. >> that may well be, and it would play out in court. it's a further question about why we're forcing businesses to associate with people they don't want to for any reason. be they religious or otherwise. >> in this case that we're talking about, you think that would be okay? it's okay to say, i find it unacceptable to serve a woman
whose hair is not covered, i will not serve her? >> i would go further and say, i will not serve people who are wearing red t-shirts, i will not serve people who have tattoos, i mean, any reason, really. this is the meaning of freedom of association. other people who don't like that, i would boycott that business and encourage my friends to do so as well. >> the civil rights act was that not the right idea? >> it was in the jim crow south, where it's enforced by the state. in terms of private businesses doing it on their own, i think they should have the freedom and individuals should have the freedom to associate how they want. >> racial discrimination also counts, red t-shirts, gay weddings, i will not serve black people. >> i don't think a business that would discriminate against race would stay in business for a
long time. >> let's -- >> let's go back to the arizona bill, it didn't mention race or sexual orientation. it's patterned off the freedom act. passed by that right wing zealot chuck schumer 20 years ago. >> and invalidated by the states in 1997. >> that's right. a lot of states have what are called mini-rpeplis. arizona's previous mini-ripra was poorly drafted and this is getting it back in line. >> i will read to you -- may assert that violation, regardless whether the party is a party to the proceedings, the person may obtain appropriate belief.
that was not previously in the law. that was in the law that was vetoed today. >> that is in play in a host of actions where the government is trying to enforce whatever kind of law against the individual. the person suing, like in the photography case, you're right to say this was all started with the prosecution of the wedding photographer. i think that hasn't happened yet in arizona, we'll see what happens now, i would advise my fellow people that agree with marriage equality. don't go suing businesses that disagree with you, take your business elsewhere, and advise your friends for doing the same. >> thanks for coming on tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank you. when we come back, who was promoting religious liberty. [ julie ] i've got to credit my mom.
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thomas frank, author of what's the matter with congress. how conservatives won the heart of america. your second book was sort of what's the matter with congress. >> yeah. >> this whole wrath of legislation came on my radar screen when the kansas house passed a way worse version of this. then what happened? >> it went to the kansas senate where it died. >> various business interests in the state lobbied against it and that was the end of it. these things are fascinating, cropping up all around the country, i'm glad for the
reporting you just did. >> i think someone sits in an office somewhere and dreams up these culture war sub pieces, tweak people in exactly the right way. it's always the same way you the average man is being persecuted. and with your trial lawyers, you're coming to a nice midwestern low cal and ruining their lives. >> as far as i can tell, there's two cases in the whole country. in some ways it's condescending to religious christians? remember flag burn something. >> yes, it never ever happened. >> it's insulting to the many devout christians around this country. there are tens of millions of whom who are not enmass telling people i'm not going to bake your cake. we have a wedding in new mexico and a photographer in oregon. fox has played a huge role in taking these small cases and
building them up. >> the narrative that justified these laws and the laws, the reason these laws came up is because fox news and anti-gay groups have been touting these very few cases for years, they are the only cases that deal with gay marriage. there was no gay marriage in new mexico when it happened. should a photographer have to acknowledge this gay couples exists and loves each other? the reason conservatives latch on to those kinds of cases, they need a victim in this gay marriage fight. there isn't a victim you can point to when it comes to gay marriage. kids of parents are getting married. it's these one or two business owners who don't want to serve people. >> what i felt was really
interesting, the way this whole thing played out. the opening, the great opening rest, where you talk about how economic conservatives play social conservatives for suckers. you say this thing about, vote to stick it to the east coast professors and get energy deregulation. this is exactly this, because at the end of the day, when the chips are down, it's the chamber of commerce, the state's business establishment that's going to be like, no. >> you've gone too far, this is a mistake, and they backed open. they cracked the whip and the republicans get into line. it's pretty funny reading, i was trying to find who was behind the bill in kansas, i was reading various statements by the legislators in the newspapers in kansas, it's like group think whiplash, they were all running in one direction. they got democrats to vote for it, all of a sudden they're like, everybody in the country
is against this? >> all the businesses are against this? >> and then they're back pedaling. >> here's the news, ohio bill proponents of the ohio version of the bill will scrap it. we saw how quickly -- fox is also kind of running the train in reverse right now. maybe this looks like an over reaction. it seems like fox which has been celebrating these cases, now looks like they're moving the other direction. >> it's been a weird week for fox. all these horror stories gain notoriety on that network. >> they were the ones who no one knew the oregon baker. >> until they became big on fox. the horror story is much easier to sell. the solution to these horror stories are much harder to sell to the public. it's easy to talk about one or two photographers, when you talk about how you fix it, the solution is allow for businesses to say no to gay customers, it's much less sellable to people in the mission. >> this is not a problem in america, right? so the idea that you need to
expand this and enshrine it into law seems ridiculous. >> thank you both, gentlemen. >> that is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> good evening, chris, thanks very much. thanks to you at home for joining us. the breaking news this hour, is the announcement tonight from jan brewer that she will veto a bill to pass the arizona state legislature, which proponents of the pressure said it was designed to protect religious liberty. proponents said it would eliminate discrimination in the state of arizona. here's her statement tonight. >> thank you for joining me here this evening. i'm here to announce a decision on senate bill 1062. as with every proposal that reaches my desk, i give great